Following the footsteps of a legend.
The WA Big Cat file is building.
Good things cannot be rushed.
Do you have info or a great story on Big Cats in WA?
Get in touch through the website missingpanther.com.au
Pumas In The Grampian Mountains
Ben Beed, creator of the brilliant podcasts Missing Panther , has kindly sent us the Free Pdf which was given to him by Professor John Henry to distribute on the net.
A Compelling Case?
By Professor John Henry
An Updated report of the Deakin Study.
Episode 5 - The Hawkesbury Files
Ben Beed has outdone himself with this brilliant episode!
Episode 5 - The Hawkesbury Files
Every time Ben records an interview for a big cat sighting they go into location folders. One folder was filling up quite fast.... The Hawkesbury Files. Find out why.
Vaughan King-Australian "Big Cat Hunter"...cough cough..
 |
| Vaughan King |
Update.
Vain King tried to respond.
Name calling (ouch) hand waving and ZERO corrections to any of my really simple points is just..sad...
I even placed links to show the quotes to make it easy for you.
And someone who thinks facts and history is merely my "opinion" should possibly not respond to criticism..
The End.. :)
New Big cat group on facebook has started.
Big Cat Sightings Australia
LINK
###########
I only post now days when someone has crossed the line by hoaxing or just being blatantly dishonest.
Now I normally couldn`t be bothered correcting people new to the subject(experts in their own minds) comments, and let them slide.
But this guys latest actions are just reprehensible.
First some corrections.
Then on to its disgraceful behaviour.
Not content with digging over old stories/myths and ideas that were done to death years and years ago by ourselves and others...Vaughan King muddles on irregardless.
I admire his ability to appear out of nowhere, waving his "bigcat handling badge" everywhere.
I also admire his ability to act like he is the first person to look into the phenomena!!
Let me give a very brief overview of this utterly clueless clown..
So this is what I found in a very brief check on what this massive ego, Vain King has being saying.
I could spend literally weeks correcting all his claims but he doesn`t appear to be too interested in logic, facts or research.... so whats the point..?
Just make up stuff that sounds cool..
Anyway..on with the fun !
We cannot prove even one species, so you would have to be an idiot to claim more than one right?
"...Vaughn King, a former keeper of big cats at Australia Zoo, previously said he believes three types of big cats are indeed roaming bushland across Australia. He identified the likely culprits as the leopard, jaguar and mountain lion in an interview with The Newcastle Herald in 2017...."
And some more "original research"
“I have spoken with a former circus owner who admitted to me in person that they had plenty of accidents over the years, one in particular where they lost an array of animals – including big cats (black leopards),” he said."
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/latest/australian-black-panther-resurfaces
Yawn..who would have thought eh..cutting edge stuff for sure.
"..The circus industry was very unregulated and there were dangerous travelling conditions on unsealed roads, so it doesn't surprise me," Mr King said..."
And private zoos Vaughan???..damn..go read our book to get a clue.
And regarding the escaped mascots theory..this is a gem.
"You have different bases around Australia — south-west WA, Sydney, Brisbane — bases that housed international personnel, and maybe that's enough to establish a population in Australia," Mr King said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-02/puma-sightings-reported-in-australia-zoo-big-cat-documentary/12205082
Do you even think before you open your mouth?
Maybe thats enough???
Having a large felid mascot would be enough!!!
There was never a shred of evidence of any mascots being brought into Australia that were exotic felids..nothing..nada..if you poke around on our big cat site you will even find a post that shows the work done on this very subject in Canberra..This was from real research.
http://www.australianbigcats.com/2016/07/alien-big-cat-public-research-at.html
"..King had always looked up to Townsend and Turner during his early years of big cat research.Now they are handing him the reins and entrusting him to carry on with their life's work...."
https://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/on-the-prowl-hunt-for-big-cat-hits-gympie/3490212/
You never looked up to them..
They were not handing anyone the reins..and the last person on earth would have been you anyway.
When you first started into this subject Vaughan, you were referring to everyone as idiots and muppets and bragged how you would crack the subject quickly.Do you remember that?...damn..
Still nothing from you son..
First off..create a great name for a page..like "pantherpeople.com"
For sure people will treat you with some respect..with such an idiotic name.
Its for sale at a bargain price right now..!!
https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=pantherpeople&e=com
So that failed..
Okay...
Next plan...keep going over old ground..and pretend its new ground.
Great game plan matey!!
Chuck in a few photos of you strapping game cameras on trees...talking about your time shovelling shit in the big cat cages..
Make idiotic comments about big cats..
What next..?
I know..become friendly with another researcher and link your pantherpeople page to her facebook group whilst fully aware it makes it look like the group is owned and run by your page ie you.
That researcher would be Samantha Yazbek.
The researcher that created Big Cat Sightings Australia Facebook group in 2011 and built it up slowly to over 8,000 members.
Without permission you linked your page to Samanthas group for which you were questioned and you continued to ramp up reasons and excuses to leave it up there.
Clearly you wanted to create the illusion that you started the group in 2011 and had been researching since that long ago.
All false of course to create a false character of who you are, with intent to gain attention.
Tick.
Next..after awhile..by grovelling and sending a teddy bear by mail(Really Vaughan??)...you insisted being made from mod to an admin... when the response was that there’s no need for you to be admin, once again you ramped up excuses as to why you “need” an admin status opposed to mod status to perform some functions on the group - rubbish
So...Samantha who had enough of your begging and repetitive demanding messages , trusts you and makes you an admin.
What next..?
I know..become friendly with another researcher and link your pantherpeople page to her facebook group whilst fully aware it makes it look like the group is owned and run by your page ie you.
That researcher would be Samantha Yazbek.
The researcher that created Big Cat Sightings Australia Facebook group in 2011 and built it up slowly to over 8,000 members.
Without permission you linked your page to Samanthas group for which you were questioned and you continued to ramp up reasons and excuses to leave it up there.
Clearly you wanted to create the illusion that you started the group in 2011 and had been researching since that long ago.
All false of course to create a false character of who you are, with intent to gain attention.
Tick.
Next..after awhile..by grovelling and sending a teddy bear by mail(Really Vaughan??)...you insisted being made from mod to an admin... when the response was that there’s no need for you to be admin, once again you ramped up excuses as to why you “need” an admin status opposed to mod status to perform some functions on the group - rubbish
So...Samantha who had enough of your begging and repetitive demanding messages , trusts you and makes you an admin.
All good..so what would an honest and ethical person now do..??
Drum roll Vaughan..but you know the punch line..
Why of course they would wait awhile and then boot Samantha out of the group she started, block her from the group and then place a trusty and compliant side kick who is equally as dishonest by your side.
Seriously matey..how much lower can you go?
Here is a prediction.
You will float around like the dishonest, egotistical halfwit that you are, for a couple of years.
You will find nothing.
And then you will get bored and vanish.
Well done mate..you should be so proud..!!
Victorian Samba hunters hoax..
Tis the season for morons to use the old "a mate of mine " routine.
The actual image comes from here.
The real photo from 2006
The actual image comes from here.
The real photo from 2006
1979 Armidale Sighting
"In July 1979 I was driving on the Guyra-Ebor road near Armidale. I think the district is named Wongwibinda. It was mid afternoon and light was good. My fiance and I were on our way to the property Dyamberin where we were to stay with the Wright family for a few days. A very large black cat (panther) around 5ft long excluding the tail loped across the road in front of our car. How close? I recall it was very close but I did not need to apply the brakes, so say 50-100m. The animal came from clear paddock on one side of the road to perhaps bushy undergrowth on the other side of the road."
Grant Denyer claims to have seen the mysterious Blue Mountains ‘panther’
Grant Denyer is the latest person to claim to have set eyes on the mysterious Blue Mountains panther.
The 2DayFM breakfast co-host excitedly told his radio offsiders Ed Kavalee and Ash London about the sighting on his property near the Blue Mountains in NSW.
“Yesterday team, guess what? We saw another panther, a black panther,” Denyer said on air to his non-believing co-hosts.
“I don’t care if you believe or not. We have seen it … This is a famous story that has haunted Sydney for years about the mysterious black panther of the Blue Mountains.”
Denyer even brought his wife, Chezzi, into the studio this morning to back up his claim.
“I was doing the dishes, looking down the paddock and I saw it and I said, ‘The panther’s back,’” Chezzi said.
She went on to say that she first spotted the black panther on their property more than three years ago — and at first her husband didn’t believe her.
“I first saw it when I was heavily pregnant with Scout and he (Grant Denyer) told me I was hallucinating and I needed to go and have a sleep,” she said to the amusement of the 2DayFM co-hosts.
“So wait, when you, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he has children with, the woman he spends his whole life with, the woman he trusts more than anyone else in the world, when you say it it’s just crazy women’s talk until he sees it,” Kavalee joked.
The Game Of Games host tried to shift the focus off him and back onto the panther and told his co-hosts the animal he spotted yesterday “has to be 10 times bigger than a normal domestic cat”.
Denyer even filmed the creature from the safety of his home, but the footage is less than convincing.
Grant Denyer with wife Chezzi at this year’s Radio Awards. Picture: Lawrence PinderSource:News Corp Australia
Rumours of a giant black panther roaming the Blue Mountains have been around for decades with more than 500 sightings recorded since 2001.
Former Hawkesbury Council mayor Bart Bassett told The Daily Telegraph in 2010 that he is a believer.
“There have been too many sightings by too many reputable people for it not to be true,” Mr Bassett said at the time.
“We’re talking about a dentist, a retired magistrate and actual Department of Primary Industries staff.”
Mike Williams and Rebecca Lang, who interviewed more than 750 witnesses for their book Australian Big Cats: An Unnatural History Of Panthers, are also convinced of the animal’s existence.
“There has been so many discrepancies with government testing of scat and fur samples. There is a big cat out there,” Mr Williams told The Daily Telegraph.
But the Department of Primary Industries remains unconvinced with a spokesman telling Nine News earlier this year that most sightings are actually of large feral cats.
“Unfortunately there is rarely sufficient evidence such as clear photos or footprints to warrant further investigation,” the spokesman told Nine.
“Where there is good evidence of large predators in the environment, and particularly if there is evidence of large predators attacking livestock or even pets, Local Land Services and DPI can investigate further.”source
The 2DayFM breakfast co-host excitedly told his radio offsiders Ed Kavalee and Ash London about the sighting on his property near the Blue Mountains in NSW.
“Yesterday team, guess what? We saw another panther, a black panther,” Denyer said on air to his non-believing co-hosts.
“I don’t care if you believe or not. We have seen it … This is a famous story that has haunted Sydney for years about the mysterious black panther of the Blue Mountains.”
Denyer even brought his wife, Chezzi, into the studio this morning to back up his claim.
“I was doing the dishes, looking down the paddock and I saw it and I said, ‘The panther’s back,’” Chezzi said.
She went on to say that she first spotted the black panther on their property more than three years ago — and at first her husband didn’t believe her.
“I first saw it when I was heavily pregnant with Scout and he (Grant Denyer) told me I was hallucinating and I needed to go and have a sleep,” she said to the amusement of the 2DayFM co-hosts.
“So wait, when you, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he has children with, the woman he spends his whole life with, the woman he trusts more than anyone else in the world, when you say it it’s just crazy women’s talk until he sees it,” Kavalee joked.
The Game Of Games host tried to shift the focus off him and back onto the panther and told his co-hosts the animal he spotted yesterday “has to be 10 times bigger than a normal domestic cat”.
Denyer even filmed the creature from the safety of his home, but the footage is less than convincing.
Grant Denyer with wife Chezzi at this year’s Radio Awards. Picture: Lawrence PinderSource:News Corp Australia
Rumours of a giant black panther roaming the Blue Mountains have been around for decades with more than 500 sightings recorded since 2001.
Former Hawkesbury Council mayor Bart Bassett told The Daily Telegraph in 2010 that he is a believer.
“There have been too many sightings by too many reputable people for it not to be true,” Mr Bassett said at the time.
“We’re talking about a dentist, a retired magistrate and actual Department of Primary Industries staff.”
Mike Williams and Rebecca Lang, who interviewed more than 750 witnesses for their book Australian Big Cats: An Unnatural History Of Panthers, are also convinced of the animal’s existence.
“There has been so many discrepancies with government testing of scat and fur samples. There is a big cat out there,” Mr Williams told The Daily Telegraph.
But the Department of Primary Industries remains unconvinced with a spokesman telling Nine News earlier this year that most sightings are actually of large feral cats.
“Unfortunately there is rarely sufficient evidence such as clear photos or footprints to warrant further investigation,” the spokesman told Nine.
“Where there is good evidence of large predators in the environment, and particularly if there is evidence of large predators attacking livestock or even pets, Local Land Services and DPI can investigate further.”source
Black panther sighting in Charlestown shocks woman
A black panther was spotted at Charlestown on Friday morning, hunting a ringtail possum, a resident claimed.
The woman did not want to be named for fear that people would think she’s mad.
“It was definitely not an ordinary cat. It wasn’t a feral cat and it wasn’t a household cat – it was bigger than that. A lot bigger – twice the size of a normal cat,” she said.
The panther was spotted behind houses that backs onto bush around a creek.
“I threw some water off my back deck next to my garden. It was 5.55am,” she said.
She saw a ringtail possum clinging to the mortar in between bricks on a brick wall and “this big black cat on top of a fence, diagonally across from it”.
“The cat was going for a possum, but couldn’t jump into the brick wall.
“The cat looked at me for about 30 seconds, then it leaped off the fence. As it leaped, its movements weren’t of a normal cat. It leaped onto a neighbour’s Colorbond fence. You could hear the heavy thump of its pads hitting the fence.
“It leaped into the backyard of another neighbour that backs onto the creek.
“As it was going across the lawn, you could see it was very young and strong. I’ve never seen anything like it.”
She did not get any photographic evidence of the creature, but said it looked like online photos of suspected black panthers.
“My son thinks I’m mad, but I know what I saw. I’m scared it will come back and get the ringtail possums.”
She had noticed wood ducks and their babies that live on the creek had recently gone missing.
Previous Sightings
The Herald reported on black panther sightings last year.
In Facebook comments on the Newcastle Herald’s website, suspected encounters with the elusive black panther were reported.
Lynda Gordon 'Flo' wrote: “I still remember a panther on our property at Bulga 35 years ago. Question it or not, I don't care. It was there. Embedded in my memory and my entire family’s memory like yesterday”.
Lorrin Maile said: “My grandparents lived at Bulga. When I was a kid, 10 to 15 years ago now, my aunt’s dog was attacked one New Year’s. We could never explain the injuries he had. A panther would fit the bill. He luckily survived and lived happily to a very old age”.
Ann Davies Krasny posted this: “I, along with my father, have seen a panther around the Colo area on the way to Singleton some years ago. Most people don't believe me, but it's still clear in my mind. Then my husband saw one also in the same vicinity on a separate occasion. The truth is out there!”
Morgan Roskell said: “I've not seen the panther but heard stories from a friend’s brother who has travelled and worked on farms – first-hand accounts”.
Jacqueline Ellis wrote: “I saw a panther near Gerogery about 20 years ago”.
Ally Pound said: “I was at a school camp on the Colo River 16 years ago. We were warned of a panther roaming through the bush, leaving dead goats up in trees”.
Mary-ann Whitlock posted this: “Saw a panther cross the road from Denman to Jerry’s Plains. We had just come down off the steep part of the road heading towards the horse studs. It crossed the road about 500 metres in front of us. We had elderly friends in front of us and they saw it too. It was a big black cat (shape of a leopard). I know what I saw and I don't care what people think either”.
Sonia Mitchell McElhinney said: “I swear I saw a panther at Tumbi Umbi 40 odd years ago. Whatever it was, it was definitely big and black and catlike”.
Marsupial Cats
We turned to renowned cryptozoologist Rex Gilroy for answers about the black panther.
“The panther is actually a large marsupial cat,” said Rex, who has written a book titled, Big Cats of the Australian Wilderness.
“I have pawprints which show them to be marsupial, rather than feline. Females have been seen carrying pouched young in the Blue Mountains and on a plateau with access to the Megalong Valley.
“They’ve got plenty of country out there to hide in and they live on native wildlife.”
Rex said the panthers could be living representatives or a subspecies of an extinct creature from the ice age.
He was working on mapping the migratory path of panthers.
“The panthers move back and forth between the Blue Mountains and the Hunter area, in the forest country of the Mount Royal Range and the Gloucester Tops and across from there into the back of Taree.
“A small family group moves through the Singleton and Greta areas.”
Black panther sightings in NSW have been happening for decades.
In 2001, a freedom-of-information request revealed the state government had been keeping a secret file on panthers.
In 2002, a NSW government inquiry found it was ‘‘more likely than not’’ a colony of big cats was roaming Sydney’s outskirts and beyond.
But a 2009 Department of Primary Industries report concluded that “there is still nothing to conclusively say that a large black cat exists”.
It said big cat sightings had been happening in NSW for more than 100 years.
More than 500 accounts had been logged across NSW in more recent times in areas including the western fringes from the Hunter to Sydney.
American soldiers were said to have brought panthers and pumas to Australia as mascots in World War II. Also, American goldminers brought big cats to NSW in the 1850s. And big cats were reportedly available on the black market years ago for $5000 . source
The woman did not want to be named for fear that people would think she’s mad.
“It was definitely not an ordinary cat. It wasn’t a feral cat and it wasn’t a household cat – it was bigger than that. A lot bigger – twice the size of a normal cat,” she said.
The panther was spotted behind houses that backs onto bush around a creek.
“I threw some water off my back deck next to my garden. It was 5.55am,” she said.
She saw a ringtail possum clinging to the mortar in between bricks on a brick wall and “this big black cat on top of a fence, diagonally across from it”.
“The cat was going for a possum, but couldn’t jump into the brick wall.
“The cat looked at me for about 30 seconds, then it leaped off the fence. As it leaped, its movements weren’t of a normal cat. It leaped onto a neighbour’s Colorbond fence. You could hear the heavy thump of its pads hitting the fence.
“It leaped into the backyard of another neighbour that backs onto the creek.
“As it was going across the lawn, you could see it was very young and strong. I’ve never seen anything like it.”
She did not get any photographic evidence of the creature, but said it looked like online photos of suspected black panthers.
“My son thinks I’m mad, but I know what I saw. I’m scared it will come back and get the ringtail possums.”
She had noticed wood ducks and their babies that live on the creek had recently gone missing.
Previous Sightings
The Herald reported on black panther sightings last year.
In Facebook comments on the Newcastle Herald’s website, suspected encounters with the elusive black panther were reported.
Lynda Gordon 'Flo' wrote: “I still remember a panther on our property at Bulga 35 years ago. Question it or not, I don't care. It was there. Embedded in my memory and my entire family’s memory like yesterday”.
Lorrin Maile said: “My grandparents lived at Bulga. When I was a kid, 10 to 15 years ago now, my aunt’s dog was attacked one New Year’s. We could never explain the injuries he had. A panther would fit the bill. He luckily survived and lived happily to a very old age”.
Ann Davies Krasny posted this: “I, along with my father, have seen a panther around the Colo area on the way to Singleton some years ago. Most people don't believe me, but it's still clear in my mind. Then my husband saw one also in the same vicinity on a separate occasion. The truth is out there!”
Morgan Roskell said: “I've not seen the panther but heard stories from a friend’s brother who has travelled and worked on farms – first-hand accounts”.
Jacqueline Ellis wrote: “I saw a panther near Gerogery about 20 years ago”.
Ally Pound said: “I was at a school camp on the Colo River 16 years ago. We were warned of a panther roaming through the bush, leaving dead goats up in trees”.
Mary-ann Whitlock posted this: “Saw a panther cross the road from Denman to Jerry’s Plains. We had just come down off the steep part of the road heading towards the horse studs. It crossed the road about 500 metres in front of us. We had elderly friends in front of us and they saw it too. It was a big black cat (shape of a leopard). I know what I saw and I don't care what people think either”.
Sonia Mitchell McElhinney said: “I swear I saw a panther at Tumbi Umbi 40 odd years ago. Whatever it was, it was definitely big and black and catlike”.
Marsupial Cats
We turned to renowned cryptozoologist Rex Gilroy for answers about the black panther.
“The panther is actually a large marsupial cat,” said Rex, who has written a book titled, Big Cats of the Australian Wilderness.
“I have pawprints which show them to be marsupial, rather than feline. Females have been seen carrying pouched young in the Blue Mountains and on a plateau with access to the Megalong Valley.
“They’ve got plenty of country out there to hide in and they live on native wildlife.”
Rex said the panthers could be living representatives or a subspecies of an extinct creature from the ice age.
He was working on mapping the migratory path of panthers.
“The panthers move back and forth between the Blue Mountains and the Hunter area, in the forest country of the Mount Royal Range and the Gloucester Tops and across from there into the back of Taree.
“A small family group moves through the Singleton and Greta areas.”
Black panther sightings in NSW have been happening for decades.
In 2001, a freedom-of-information request revealed the state government had been keeping a secret file on panthers.
In 2002, a NSW government inquiry found it was ‘‘more likely than not’’ a colony of big cats was roaming Sydney’s outskirts and beyond.
But a 2009 Department of Primary Industries report concluded that “there is still nothing to conclusively say that a large black cat exists”.
It said big cat sightings had been happening in NSW for more than 100 years.
More than 500 accounts had been logged across NSW in more recent times in areas including the western fringes from the Hunter to Sydney.
American soldiers were said to have brought panthers and pumas to Australia as mascots in World War II. Also, American goldminers brought big cats to NSW in the 1850s. And big cats were reportedly available on the black market years ago for $5000 . source
Lithgow Panther...drags on and on..
Lithgow panther an enduring mystery amid hundreds of sightings, claims of a cover-up
Government reports strangely amended, over 500 sightings over 20 years, flawed scientific testing … there is a reason the Lithgow panther is part of folklore.
The crunch of dry leaves, the heavy snap of a stick, a feeling of suddenly being watched as the bush goes quiet are some of the sensations more than 560 people have reported in the Hawkesbury, Blue Mountains and Lithgow area since 1998....
source
Government reports strangely amended, over 500 sightings over 20 years, flawed scientific testing … there is a reason the Lithgow panther is part of folklore.
The crunch of dry leaves, the heavy snap of a stick, a feeling of suddenly being watched as the bush goes quiet are some of the sensations more than 560 people have reported in the Hawkesbury, Blue Mountains and Lithgow area since 1998....
source
NSW BIG CAT REPORTS
Bauer 1999 Report to Eric David HERE
2003 Big Cat Report HERE
2008 Report.
(This was hidden until an FOI flushed it out in 2009)
Then, using DPI magic, it had information removed, data manipulation and expert opinion removed...and became...
11 May 2009 Second Dept Primary Industries report . HERE
25th May 2009 Reply to Premier- HERE
27th September 2009 after failed contact with NSW Ombudsman HERE
2013 October Large free-ranging felines in New South Wales: a review.
John Parkes . HERE
The 1999 Bauer report.
The NSW Department of Primary Industries Report 2003.
The NSW government had no intention of ever releasing any of the following reports below.
We did a series of FOI requests and flushed them out.
The 1st NSW Department of Primary Industries Report September 2008.
The white wash report is next.
The 2nd NSW Department of Primary Industries Report- September 2009.
NEWSFLASH
The Director General appears to have never sighted the 2009 report.
He also never signed off on the report.
Therefore the 2009 report and the mendacious error ridden conclusion on the Departments web site are not even official.
And whose blunder was that.?
Cricket noises from the department as usual.
And from the useless media..??????
Diddly squat as usual....
Our reply to the Premier pointing out some of the mistakes.
Even though the 2008 report had loads of mistakes and appeared to been researched by someone in a hurry, its not to0 bad by NSW government standards.
The second report is the mendacious gold.
The 2009 has whitewashed the whole of the 2003 report and the 2008 report.
It even forgot to mention the Dr Johannes Bauer "study" in 1999.
Remember the Bauer debacle .?
You know!!!
The department gave the ecologist 2 days to do "research", because of the "budget constraints".
He concluded "Difficult as it seems to accept the most likely explanation of the evidence is the presence of a large feline predator in this area, most likely a leopard, less likely a jaguar (unless this is an elaborate hoax by someone in the community).
And what did the NSW government do with that report...NOTHING.
They hid it, never mentioned one thing until it was flushed out by another FOI.
But we digress..
The 2009 "report" even managed to fake the conclusion of the 2003 report.
"...The report however concluded that none of the available evidence conclusively proved the presence of free-ranging exotic large cats In NSW..."
Wow, they must have missed the bit after the comma in the 2003 report.!!
The actual 2003 conclusion was.
"..Nothing found in this review conclusively proves the presence of free ranging exotic large cats in NSW, but this cannot be discounted and seems more likely than not on available evidence..."
Why did the DPI do two reports.?
No one is saying, they have all gone to ground.
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